PRESS CRANKS UP BUSH FLIGHT FORWARD
by Lyndon H. LaRouche, Jr. September 11, 2001, 1730 EDT
My monitoring of the coverage of the today's crisis by leading television media, and others, shows a clear pattern of intent to push President Bush into a typical case of cowardly "flight forward." That coverage presents us with the image of the terror-stricken soldier, messing his pants in a foxhole, who charges against a machine-gun nest "to get it over with."
There is a clear impulse, radiating from these news media and political sources, to have the President immediately take awesome reprisals for the sake of appearing to deliver prompt retribution, even without waiting to uncover the actual perpetrators.
There are, in fact, a very limited number of entities which have the highly sophisticated capability to have pulled over today's terrorist operations. None of these are on the short list of "usual terrorism suspects" or so-called "rogue states." Unfortunately, the politically terrified coward would rather kill someone, rather than uncover the actual perpetrators, and then cover up the fact that the "reprisals" had been taken against the wrong targets.
Live Radio Transcript
September 11, 2001,
9:15am to 11am
The transcript you are about to read is from a live radio interview by Lyndon H. LaRouche Jr. on Tuesday morning, September 11, 2001. The interview was conducted by Jack Stockwell, of radio station KTKK-AM (K-Talk) in Salt Lake City, and the interview was also broadcast worldwide, live on the internet at www.k-talk.com. It took place from 9:15-11:00 AM (EDT).
We have decided to publish the transcript because it affords the average citizen, as well as government officials and other policy-makers, an opportunity to read a blow-by-blow account of Mr. LaRouche's comments, as word was coming in of the terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center towers and the U.S. Pentagon. It was the unique circumstances of LaRouche being interviewed, live, as the tragic events were unfolding, that defines this interview as of particular importance. LaRouche has had unique experience in tracking and combatting such acts of irregular warfare, over decades, and his running commentaries--as the news was first breaking, and as his fellow citizens were responding to the news--should serve as an important corrective to the kinds of errors that are already being made by many among the so-called experts' appearing on the national and international news.
The following interview was carried out on September 11, 2001, between Jack Stockwell, morning radio host on K-TALK radio in Salt Lake City, Utah, and 2004 Presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche. It was conducted from 7:15 to 9 AM, Mountain Daylight Time.
Stockwell: Good morning, everybody. It is five and a half minutes after 7:00 here on the 11th day of September 2001. My name is Jack Stockwell. I will be here for two hours this morning. This morning's schedule, in about another 10 minutes, is Lyndon LaRouche, an already pre-announced candidate for the 2004 election in the Democratic Party.
I have been having LaRouche people on this program by popular demand, as well as my own interest, for several years. And occasionally, we get Mr. LaRouche himself on here. And we've been able to do that this morning. He's scheduled to be a guest at 7:15.
And there are a number of things to talk about, to talk to him about. I'll talk to him for a while, and then we'd be more than happy to entertain your phone calls.
So, I am sitting here looking at--two planes have hit the World Trade Center? Well, I'm looking at it right now at the Internet, at MSNBC. There's a link on the very first page of MSNBC. You're kidding. A second plane has hit the tower.
Well, that's unconfirmed. We just heard that. Well, the picture I'm looking at, I can tell you right now how many casualties there are. They're all casualties. Looking at this picture I'm looking at. The smoke is just billowing out of the top of the World Trade Center.
They're terrorist attacks? Well, you would think so. That is one explosive-looking picture. If you have access to the Internet, you want to go to www.msnbc. And then let's see here. On the home page of MSNBC, you will find ``New York Disaster. Witnesses: Plane Crashes into the World Trade Center.''
Look at this, Josh. And then you link on to that, and you'll go right to the picture of this building. There's this huge, gaping hole about five or six stories from the top, and smoke billowing out all over the building. That's got to be a terorrist attack.
Someone just called in and said there's been a second one? Just when one guy was reporting on it, another plane hit it?
Speaker: A jet.
Stockwell: A jet. My goodness. Well, you figure some of these terrorists who are willing to wrap themselves up in a dynamite vest and walk into a restaurant in downtown Jerusalem, and take out 50 people. I mean, how much harder would it be to give them some intensive --
You know, you could take anybody on the street, and in two weeks, they'll be flying a Lear jet. It's not that hard. Flight is not that difficult. I have a multi-engine rating myself. And it took about--I don't know. It took six or seven hours for me to solo the first time in a single engine.
I think it took me two hours of training to be able to solo in a multi-engine, a twin engine airplane. I've never been able to fly a jet, pilot a jet, but the aerodynamics--I mean, the aeronautical concepts are all the same.
You could take somebody in a matter of minutes, train them to fly a jet. And, you know, with the way air traffic control works, and the clear sky that the background picture of this on the Internet scene I'm looking at right now displays, you don't do stuff like this, unless you intend on doing stuff like this. This is not an accident. At least, I wouldn't think so.
It says: ``Ambulances Rush to the Scene, No Word on Casualties.''
Well, a jet has got to be doing at least 130, 140 knots. Now I could probably get down to 100 knots and stay airborne. But--yes, suicide terrorist is probably what it amounts to.
Anyway, Lyndon LaRouche is scheduled to be my guest here shortly. I'm sure that we will address that subject with him. Don't go away.
What we're getting now, is it appears that one airplane hit each of the two towers. And I mean, that's beyond coincidence. Something--some organizational thing. Many of you have already turned on your television sets. You have the advantage over me, because we don't have a TV here in the office, though we should.
But the picture that I'm looking at right now of MSNBC is just incredible.
Who is that? Well, we just had Mr. LaRouche phone in. He will be calling back on the other line quickly, and then we will go from that. So, what I think I will do is -- he's here now. We'll go ahead and address this.
And I want to give out a number several times here. Because a lot of you, during the course of my discussion with Mr. LaRouche or at least towards the end of the program, will want some more information. So I'm going to give you a number now. 703-297-8368.
And if you will call, there will be people on the other end of the line who will be happy to talk to you and clarify some of the discussion that we're having.
Also, information regarding videos, pamphlets, anything else of--regarding what we're going to be discussing, will be available by calling that number. 703-297-8368.
Well, I'm still sitting here looking at this incredible picture, this incredible image in front of me of this burning World Trade Center, as these two jets have just slammed. One jet has slammed into each of the two towers.
So, we'll go ahead, and I'm going to go ahead and get my guest on here with me. Mr. LaRouche.
Stockwell: Good morning, sir.
LaRouche: Good morning, Jack.
Stockwell: Well, what a pleasure and an honor to have you back on my program again. I was hoping to move the discussion initially with what we were going to do here into the area of the sublime.
LaRouche: Yes, right.
Stockwell: But now, with what has just happened in New York, with this--you know, interesting enough. Just yesterday, I received--I think it was just yesterday -- a bundle of leaflets from your organization in Leesburg that I regularly pass out in my office warning of terrorst attacks in America here very shortly.
Stockwell: And here we have the morning that you're on my program, what's happening in New York at the World Trade Center. I don't know if you've seen these images or pictures yet on the television.
LaRouche: I haven't yet. I was just sitting up here working, and just heard about it before I went to call you.
Stockwell: Yes. Well, the smoke is billowing out of the one tower here. My wife called me a moment ago. And apparently they caught, live, on film, the second jet smashing in to one of the other towers.
LaRouche: Obviously, this is not exactly an accident.
Stockwell: No, sir. I don't believe it is.
LaRouche: I mean, it's not a coincidence. It's obviously--this is so remote in probability that there has to be intention in this thing.
Stockwell: Well, it's one thing for somebody to strap on a jacket made of dynamite and walk into a diner in downtown Jerusalem. It's another thing to jump inside of a Lear jet and go smashing in the side of a building like that.
LaRouche: The thing you have to look at, and the context in which this is occurring, is two things. First of all, the first suspicion that's going to be on this is Osama bin Laden. That name is going to come up prominently, whether as suspicion or just suspicion.
LaRouche: And the second thing, which is not unrelated to the Osama bin Laden question, is this festival which is planned--really a terrorist festival for Washington, D.C.
Stockwell. At the end of the month.
LaRouche: Yes. We have a global process. Look, the financial system's coming down. That's always a dangerous thing. Because when the entire system is being shaken up the way it is now, by the financial collapse, political things happen, because various people try to intervene and orchestrate events by spectacular interventions, which will change, shall we say, get public attention off one thing and put it on another.
So, this is obviously--I mean, I cannot draw a conclusion, except the circumstances tell me something rather evil is behind this thing. And I don't know which, but they're both connected, because I know the Goldsmith brothers--for example, Jimmy Goldsmith was key in helping to create--he's now deceased--Osama bin Laden and people like that. The Taliban and so forth.
And at the same time, his brother, Teddy Goldsmith, who is still very much alive, is sort of the spiritual godfather of this movement which is planning to inundate Washington, D.C., with some pretty nasty stuff at the end of this month.
Stockwell: Something to a much greater degree than what happened in Seattle.
LaRouche: Oh, absolutely. This thing went from Seattle--Seattle was basically a terrorist operation. But, you know, if you look at the history of how terrorist operations are run, you would run a hard-core terrorist operation. And around it, they would run sympathizer operations which were not necessarily wittingly connected to the terrorist operation. But they were run and coordinated simultaneously.
In Seattle, you had the so-called legitimate protest, wihch was largely trade-union-backed. But into the same scenario, you had coming out of Canada, based in Canada -- and the Canadian-U.S. border is rather leaky, you know. And they were coming across in droves over there to do funny things.
Then you had the operation, a conference in Porto Alegre, Brazil, just a short time ago, which Teddy Goldsmith chaired. And this cuts into the people who are generally the ambiance of international terrorism.
Then, from there, from Genoa, they went to some other things. But the big thing--from Porto Alegre to Genoa, where they staged an upscale terrorist operation.
Now, from what I know of the details of the terrorist operations being prepared in Maryland and Virginia for Washington, D.C., where they're being prestaged, this is intended to be much bigger than Genoa.
So, what you have is a challenge to the integrity of the nation's capital, of what is ostensibly the most powerful nation--a nuclear power--on this planet. And that is not funny.
Stockwell: If you can--the FBI is now saying that a plane was possibly hijacked for this attack. If you can do that with the World Trade Center, what could you do with the White House?
LaRouche: Absolutely. I've been very concerned about this. You know, I'm not very sympathetic with what some of these agencies do. But I'm concerned, not just as a Presidential pre-candidate. But I'm concerned with the security of the United States and the peace of the world. And this is not good for the health of the nation or the world. These things should not happen.
And we could prevent this kind of stuff. But we just don't do it, because, I don't know. Someone says, let it happen.
Stockwell: How would you prevent terrorist activity?
LaRouche: Well, the thing is, if you don't--if you dispense with the myth that there are a number of unknown people out there coming out of the mists, and nobody knows where they come from, then you would say, How can you stop the terrorist operations?
If you know how the world is actually organized, you know you cannot organize a sustained preparation for terrorist operations in any country without the backing of a powerful government, or governments.
So that, if you know what the operation is--and I would say, you know, I have been warning against this Teddy Goldsmith operation all along, because I know what it's connected to politically. It's extremely dangerous.
And if I had been President, or in a similar position during this period, I would have had an all-out, very discreet, but very all-out and effective discussion with some other governments in the world, and we together would have taken appropriate steps to try to neutralize this kind of danger.
Of course, you can't be 100% in this sort of thing. But you can do a pretty good job. And two planes. Now, that's pretty big. That's--one plane, that might not be preventible. But two in the same short --
No, that's not small-time stuff.
Stockwell: No, this is pretty serious. Hold on a second here, Mr. LaRouche. I have a traffic update I need to give my listeners. Thanks a lot, Don.
Lyndon, is there any reason to assume that this would be something other than Osama bin Laden?
LaRouche: Sure. There are many. Osama bin Laden is a controlled entity. Osama bin Laden is not an independent force. Remember how he came into existence. Osama bin Laden was a wealthy sultan. Back in the 1970s, during the Carter Administration, or shall we say the Brzezinski Administration, the idea of running an Afghanistan war on the borders of Soviet territory was cooked up by Brzezinski as a geopolitical operation.
Well, Brzezinski was responsible. They didn't necessarily cook it up. But all right. This thing started, and an Anglo-American unit, running together with a certain section of the Pakistani military, the funny, funny boys in the Pakistani military, set up this operation.
The United States government and British government and others--that is, our funny, funny boys--went out and recruited a lot of Islamic people to fight communism and defend Holy Islam, and so forth. That sort of line.
They recruited in many countries. And they deployed them. Now later, they killed some of the same people they deployed. You know, they're expendable. So they don't really have an insurance policy that goes with their recruitment.
But they were recruited. Osama bin Laden was one of the big funding agents of this, a funding conduit which was used by people, among others, then-Vice President George Bush. This is Iran-Contra, or what's called Iran-Contra, which I've called it by other names which I wouldn't put on the air.
So this thing is left behind. And suddenly now we find Osama bin Laden becomes the name. And Osama bin Laden could not last, the way he's running around, if he didn't have big protection. And it's not just from a section of the Pakistani government or Afghanistan. It's from other governments who would like to see the effects that Osama bin Laden produces thrown around.
So, now you can blame Osama bin Laden. At some point, you go in and kill him, and you say the problem was solved. But you never considered who sent, who created Osama bin Laden, and who protected him, and deployed his forces and name for these purposes.
And as we saw in terrorism in Italy in the 1970s, for example, the people who were running the so-called terrorist operations in Italy, were not really the groups that had the credit for it. They were actually runaway NATO asset organizations at a very high level. The same people that killed the former Prime Minister Aldo Moro in that period.
So, in a case like this, don't assume that the popular names that everybody knows, or that the FBI quotes and so forth, that this is the real problem.
They may be part of the problem.
Stockwell: Well, our mind, especially in our degenerating Western culture, always runs for the simple answer. We want the kind of answer that will free us from our guilt and our responsibilities of the neglect of our government and our fellow man all these years. And so, we run to the simplistic.
And the simplistic, of course, is there he is, the big, bad bogey man from the Middle East, who has caused us so many problems before. And I certainly understand what you're saying there, that the more simple we can make the presentation, then the less obligated any of us are.
Anyway, why would they be doing this? I mean, is there some--I mean, here we have a market crashing. We don't just have a market crashing. We have an entire economy crashing within the arena of a culture that's crashing.
Stockwell. We are--if war, massive war were to break out in the Middle East any second, nobody would be surprised. If Putin were to be assassinated, if Arafat were to be assassinated, if Sharon were to be assassinated, nobody would be surprised.
I mean, we are sitting on a powderkeg of powderkegs. And with all of the other provocations that could occur around the world to stop a lot of the economic unity and development that is beginning to gain some momentum between the large powers on the other side of the planet, why in the world fly a jet into the World Trade Center?
LaRouche: This is to create a provocation inside the United States. I mean, that's the only reason that would be done. You probably--for example, stories may come out that this is done by some Arab group which is protesting the U.S. government's sympathy for Sharon, or for the Israeli Defense Force. I don't know if the Israeli Defense Force are going to kill Sharon tomorrow, I mean, because there's real conflict there. And these guys tend to shoot, then think.
But some story like that. But what we're into is a period where the word is not terrorism. Terrorism is a part of the picture. The word is ``destabilization.'' The problem part, from my standpoint, is, look at our own government.
And we are, in a sense, still sort of a superpower. I think the term is probably not quite appropriate for our present state of affairs. But we used to be a superpower, and we still have a dominant position in the world.
But what kind of a government do we have? Well, the Bush Administration. And the thing was crashing, you see poor Secretary O'Neill babbling around. You see Rumsfeld has become a joke in his own Defense Department.
Stockwell: Well, he's--I think the newspaper slug I -- the one I just most recently read, was that he's going to take on the Pentagon.
LaRouche: This is all a sideshow. The point is, President George Bush doesn't function. He's been in there, and as I said, this Jan. 3, when I first announced and made a prognosis to what his Administration would be, it's been one catastrophe after another.
Nothing he has proposed has actually worked. Some of the things he proposed have been done, but they are disasters. And he's not capable of being a President as such, unless he were controlled by a group of advisers who would give him good advice and solve his problems on how to deal with situations.
But he doesn't have that. He has a nut like Wolfowitz over there underneath Rumsfeld nominally, who's actually running the Defense Department. You have Armitage in the State Department, and similar kinds of things.
These guys as I know them are nuts. And they're in there. Then you look at the Democratic Party. And you have the statement from Daschle, who's the Senate Majority Leader now, saying he can't do anything, it's up to Bush, the President, who Daschle knows can't do anything.
Stockwell: Yes. Well, Daschle is saying--I think he said over the weekened something like, Well, you know, they've got control of the House, and they've got control of the White House. And we have a very slim majority in the Senate, and boy, there's just nothing we can do.
LaRouche: Well, he's wrong, and he knows it. Because I've got a certain position in the Democratic Party, despite what Al Gore would like to think. And I could be in a position very easily to steer these guys into doing things that would begin to work, even with the limited strength the Democratic Party has today.
And I think that if the Party would do some of those things, we would do two things. We would not only be able to move and shake the population a bit into believing there's somebody up there that might help them, you'd also find a number of Republicans who are not nuts, and who are simply patriotic, and will listen to reason, who would cooperate with the Democrats in doing some of the things we have to do. We have a vacuum of leadership.
Stockwell: With all of the ills and the evils and the mistakes and the corruption that might have been involved with the Clinton Administration, at least when you called the White House, there was somebody there that would answer the phone.
LaRouche: (Laughs) And especially when Bob Rubin was there helping Clinton out. I may not have approved of what Bob did many times, but at least he was competent.
Stockwell: Yes, exactly. Now we've got a situation where I'm afraid there would probably just be a recording inviting you down to the ranch.
Now, there was a recent comment here on the television a few moments ago that Bush would be making comments relative to this terrorist attack. This is the biggest thing since probably Oklahoma.
LaRouche: Much bigger.
Stockwell: Well, yes. I think the implications of this will be much bigger.
LaRouche: It's much bigger.
Stockwell: You know, when Oklahoma first happened, the first two or three days--and I remember, I was glued to the television set. The first two or three days, there was a large implication towards the Middle East and the Arabs that were running around town.
And then they kind of covered that up, and that was out of the picture, and they never mentioned it any more.
LaRouche: Well, largely, this is a domestic covert operation, which we had word of beforehand. Everybody had the word, and if I had been President, I mean, on the basis of just what I knew, I would have taken certain actions immediately, which would--security/surveillance actions in anticipation of exactly that kind of problem.
So we were not mystified. The problem is that fun and games is being played by various institutions, and we don't have anybody really effectively in charge.
Stockwell: Now, Bush just made a comment. He said, The plane was an American Airlines Boeing 767 out of Boston. And they don't know whether there were any passengers on it or not. They think that it was a hijacked airplane.
But a Boeing 767 from Boston was the plane that did it. And the President has guaranteed everybody he's going to bring the terrorists to justice. And he's talked to the Governor of New York, and they're going to bring them to justice. And he said, God bless the victims. It's a little late for that.
LaRouche: As a matter of fact, that is the worst thing he can do. If he would have said, ``Of course, we are going to get to the bottom of this, and deal with it in an appropriate way,'' that would be the right thing to say.
LaRouche: But to say that he's going to solve the problem by bringing somebody to justice, that is the worst thing he can say.
Stockwell: Yes. Because again, it goes back to -- just to underscore what you were saying at the very beginning, that if we can find a couple of guys running around New York right now, trying to get out of town, or Boston, or wherever the thing took place, trying to hurry up and get on the next ship back to Saudi Arabia or whatever, like that was the end of the problem.
But as you were pointing out there at the beginning, it's just part of a network, a network that can only exist by the support and the organizational strength of some major superpower on the planet.
LaRouche: I can make a flat statement on that, Jack.
LaRouche: If I were President of the United States right now, I would have already acted before this happened, not even knowing that this was going to happen.
And I would have had the following cooperation. I would have had cooperation from Russia, from Germany, from France, from Italy. I probably would have gotten a good deal from certain forces in Britain as well.
And we would have--and Japan, and China. And Arab countries, including Egypt. And we would have put our heads together real quick, pooling our resources, and said, whether we agree on other issues or not, this kind of thing is not going to happen, and we're going to see to it, it doesn't.
And that would work. The problem is, you've got the foolish President of the United States-- and I say that advisedly. A friend of mine just said in Massachusetts, and he's running for office up there, for a Congressional seat. He said Bush can't even defend his daughters from being bombed.
Stockwell: (Laughs.) Well, that took me a second. Bush can't even protect his own daughters from being bombed. Well, out of respect for what's just happened here, still, that's hilarious.
LaRouche: Well, you've got to have a sense of humor even in the worst situation. If you don't, your head is not cool, and your judgment will not be clear. I always advise my friends, the worse it gets, the more laughter you'd better be able to generate. If you haven't got a sense of humor about any situation, no matter how serious --
Remember what Roosevelt did? Roosevelt did two things in running for President after the disaster that Coolidge bestowed on Hoover. Roosevelt started his campaign in West Virginia, with the famous statement talking about the Forgotten Man.
And then, when he entered office, he addressed the American people with the theme, There's nothing as much to be feared as fear itself. And the key thing--we've got a citizenry, a frightened citizenry, a frightened and confused world, who are in the state of denial, because they're frightened.
They wish to deny this crisis. They wish to believe that the thing is going to bounce back miraculously tomorrow, that suddenly the Nasdaq will suddenly jump out of its grave and suddenly become prosperous again.
The time now is needed, to reassure, in particular, the American people that somebody is in charge, that those persons in charge know what they're doing, and they're going to fix the situation, and they will call upon the American people for support as needed.
That would work. But this kind of thing, of vengeance-seeking and snarling and growling to prove how mad you are, this isn't government. This is sideshow. This is Bozo the Clown putting on an act.
Stockwell: So we've got a situation here where this could just be the beginning, especially with what we've got coming up with the Jacobin terrorist activity that a lot of people are expecting in Washington at this big summit at the end of the month, because --
I mean, we are so vulnerable now. When you were mentioning all these other countries that could get together and stop this, any one of them is vulnerable. But there seems to be an increasing vulnerability within the United States, as we sink deeper into denial, and bury our heads in the sand, and then go back to the old tried-and-true methods of fear-based living that we've always done with before, where our millennial fears and our Armageddonist concerns, and all these things, start coming back to the surface.
And we get our old barking dog outfits out of the closet, and get them back on again. Incidents like this in the midst of an economic crish, in the midst of a morality crash, could be the beginning of a provocation of some serious setbacks in this country, just from our own Justice Department.
Just from--you know, anything like this could get to a situation where we could find our own liberties in this country under serious attack, just because of the level of incompetence that exists in the government in leadership positions, backed up or at least undergirded to some degree, by some very malicious personalities that have been in the Justice Department and Defense Department for decades waiting for the right provocation to occur to move in to their crisis management operations.
LaRouche: And it won't work. The point is, they're idiots. And, you know, I really pity the current President. You know, he's not a friend of mine. His father certainly was not a friend of mine.
But he is President. And I think of him sitting in the office, and I realize the poor man has no conception and no capability of understanding what the world situation is, and what is actually hitting him.
He's got a Treasury Secretary O'Neill who certainly does not inspire confidence in any sane observer. You've got Wolfowitz who's a nut. You've got Armitage, another nut. You've got problems.... And then you look at the Democratic Party--you see this crazy Lieberman, running around with this Faith-Based Initiative. This is silly stuff! You see Daschle ducking, bobbing and weaving, so he doesn't take a punch.
Here we are in a crisis, a financial crisis, now we have this terrorist thing, which probably indicates that more things are on the way, but maybe of a different variety, but on the way--and we have no leadership. You have the American people sitting out there, being more and more frightened as this kind of thing occurs, and they look up, and they go into the cockpit to see who's flying the plane that's in trouble, and they find a three-year-old kid sitting in the pilot's seat, and nobody else there.
That's what our problem is. That's our biggest problem. We have the means to deal with the worst kind of problem that I can envisage is likely to happen now. But if we don't have the leadership, if we don't reach out to the kind of cooperation we could have, that I know I could have, with key parts of the world, other countries,|...
Stockwell: Yes--traffic update....
Don, you're on the Stockwell show.
Don: Hello. We're getting some other reports here, we want to confirm, regarding some more terrorist activity occurring at other sites.
Don: But I don't want to mention it over the air, because I would like to have that confirmed before I say what somebody just called in and said....
Stockwell: Gee whiz, this is quite a day. What a day! You know, we're sitting out here in the middle of this vast emptiness in the West, and we're removed from the East Coast culturally, we're removed politically, we are removed economically; we've kind of got this Marlboro man attitude out here in the West that: ``Well, hell with New York, and they're all a bunch of queers anyway.'' And, as we go into deeper denial, trying desperately....
I have been reporting to my listeners for some time now, every step of the breakdown that I've been able to investigate and report, and get clear in my own mind, of the economic collapse, of the political collapse, and we've seemed to escape it to a large degree. But now we're starting to have significant layoffs occurring in Utah, and it's finally becoming very real around here, that we aren't a separate people. We're not this unique group of pioneer progeny, that tamed the West, and we can tame any other kind of a problem. We are in the same ship, the ship has hit the iceberg, we don't have enough lifeboats, and what we need right now desperately is a captain who knows how to keep the ship alive long enough, to keep it on the surface of the water.
And, as we get more and more of these indications, constantly,... I like the comment that you made there a moment ago, about the Nasdaq jumping back out of the grave -- the implication, of course, is that it's dead.
The little kinds of--what, a plane? A plane has flown into the Pentagon. They've had an explosion at the Pentagon now.
LaRouche: That's confirmed?
Stockwell: I don't know if that's confirmed or not, it must be coming in from another.... What's the source of that?
CBS is reporting that a plane has flown into the Pentagon.
LaRouche: I hope that somebody's got some reports of where these planes were coming from....
Stockwell: Well, one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center, was definitely confirmed as an American Airlines 767 hijacked out of Boston. They haven't announced yet whether there was anybody on the plane or not
LaRouche: Must have been. There must have been. The point is, unless there's really a goofup. Because, how can a plane take off, without clearance? And if it's taking off without clearance, it becomes an immediate security problem.
Stockwell: Yes.... The Pentagon? It is confirmed now, on several news sources, that the Pentagon is experiencing explosions right now. My goodness!
LaRouche: They mean business!
Stockwell: They're evacuating the White House at the moment, and yes, obviously, they mean business....
LaRouche: This is a very systematic operation. If they're snatching planes... if all three of these planes -- the two we have from New York and this thing on the Pentagon--to get that kind of thing, to snatch planes like that, that's a pretty sophisticated operation.
Stockwell: Oh, yeah. This isn't a bunch of malcontents, of some grass-roots organization, finally striking back. You're going to have to have some rather heavy-duty intelligence network, and some real intelligence experience with this.
LaRouche: The question is, where were the relevant intelligence agencies which are in charge of monitoring this problem? Now, I've been putting this out for some time--not this, I didn't know this airplane thing, but I assumed almost anything could happen... but on the Washington, D.C. targetting. So obviously, the Pentagon means that this is obviously, clearly Washington, D.C. targettting. This is obviously intended to imply something coming out of the Middle East. This means that there's been some kind of either incompetence or fix on the whole security operation, because you CAN'T get this kind of thing without a real goofup, on the security side. So somebody in charge of security was really not very effectively in charge.
You can't go around snatching planes in a coordinated fashion, like this. You can't do it. Somebody has to be really sloppy.
Stockwell: Well, we've got ... you know. If this were arising from some Middle East effect, it's been almost a year now since the Clintons did their about-face with the Palestinians, in order to secure election for Hillary with the Jewish vote in New York. And ever since then, I don't know what the death count is--between 2,000 and 3,000, maybe, in the Middle East, just because of Hillary's need to get the Jewish vote.
LaRouche: Well, I think that that was something that fell in there.
Stockwell: Well, that's probably true, but then Sharon's march up the Temple Mount stairs....
LaRouche: It's not Sharon. Sharon did it, but it's not Sharon's operation. That sort of thing comes from the inside of the Israeli Defense Forces, and that Sharon is virtually a civilized human being compared to some of those guys in there. And I've been afraid that they might kill him, in order to use his killing, as a pretext for using, shall we call, weapons of mass destruction, against places like Baghdad, and Damascus, and Teheran.
Stockwell: Were they the forces behind Rabin's assassination?
LaRouche: The same crowd. Absolutely. And there are people in the United States, who politically, in a sense, are authors of the production of some of these nuts, who have been shipped into Israel, to increase the problem there.
Then of course, you have the operation, which is, you have them in the Arab world, you have some of the same people who are running the Israeli nuts, are also running an operation, by recruiting certain Islamic nationals, people of Islamic persuasion, to do similar kinds of things, in order to set--rub two sticks together to make a fire.
Stockwell: All right. These are not isolated events. There's some orchestration, some intelligence, behind all of this. This isn't just the IDF, it isn't just Osama bin Laden, or somebody wanting to bring down the infidel in the name of Allah. We've got it confirmed now, the White House is being evacuated, the Pentagon is evacuated; it was just a fire, it wasn't a bomb, but they have a record of a U.S. military helicopter circling the Pentagon, and then there was a massive fireball....
LaRouche: Could be a bomb on a truck or something....
Stockwell: Yes, it could be another truck bomb. Those shaped-charges have proven to be very effective in the past. So, where does this end, then? Not in the sense of in the future, where does end in the sense of organization? Where's this going back to, Lyndon? Who's doing this?
LaRouche: This goes back, in a sense, to me. Because what's happened is, the United States no longer has leadership, that is, efficiently. The present Presidency, the Republican Party as an organization in the Senate and the House, is a complete moral and intellectual disaster. There are some good people in there, but there's not a leadership, a unified leadership, or anything like coherence.
In the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party in the Senate, which is now a hasbeen, slim margin of majority in the Senate, is not ... there's no leadership! It has no response to the reality of the present period. And when you have the leader of the Senate Democrats, the leader of the House there, saying that he's not going to do anything, because it's up to George Bush--and he knows that George Bush can't do anything of significance--it's complete irresponsibility!
And then all the other institutions, political institutions, party institutions--the problem is, is that people have for so long, have believed so deeply in the kinds of changes in culture which were introduced over the past 35 years, especially since Nixon ran his Southern Strategy, that campaign; that we have lost our sense of leadership in the nation, we've lost our sense of what the United States' leading role must be, not because of somebody's ego, but because of our responsibility to the world at large.
I know, from my direct personal experience, and I have it, you know, in a lot of countries--South America, Central America, different parts of Asia, Russia, Germany, Eastern Europe, Italy, and so forth, India--I know people in these countries. If I were in a position of leadership in Washington, and either President, or advising a President, I know how to deal with this kind of problem.
We in the world have the resources. The United States has the ability to get the cooperation from those resources. What I fear now is that some fool is going to say, ``No, we're going to go along with the existing team''--the existing team is what is causing the problem, it's fatal.
Stockwell: ...|The FAA has just grounded all flights in the United States. This hasn't happened since World War II. All flights are now grounded in the United States.
- [traffic break] -
Stockwell: Apparently, what we got here, there are FAA flights in the air, of course, which are being brought down, or being told to come down. President Bush is currently in Washington State [sic], at an elementary school, talking about education.
LaRouche: Doesn't do much for education, but maybe it keeps him calm.
Stockwell: Yeah, but he says he's going to get to the bottom of this in a hurry. There are pictures of Air Force One--all flights are halted except Air Force One, and it's coming back to Washington. Maybe he's already on the plane. But the Pentagon's evacuated, the White House is evacuated. Gosh, maybe Leesburg better evacuate.
You know, there has been a history of distractions that have been perpetrated to try to keep... all of this Gary Condit stuff, you know, things like this, just distractions to keep people's minds away from what is taking place, of a much more serious nature, not the least of which is what is happening in the market place, the stock exchange, and all the exchanges, for that matter.
This, I guess, is going to be the distraction of all time. It's hard to imagine this. We've got a break coming up here shortly. I think we have you scheduled for another hour, don't we, Lyn?
LaRouche: Yes, something like that.
Stockwell: Good, because we can all take a look at the television during the NBC news break. I can imagine what they're going to be talking about on the radio. And then we can get back together at 8:00 o'clock and get that going.
But we have just a couple of more minutes here. And that is, we're dealing with a mindset here, that is certainly not oriented to the Preamble of our Constitution. And in fact, I don't know that they're even oriented towards any basic Judeo-Christian thought, in the divine nature of man, but more in the sense of some misguided Darwinian concepts, that we are part of an evolutionary tree that needs to be curbed, and culled, and husbanded, and who will stop at nothing. Who else ... what else, I have no reason... there's no way to substantiate this, but jets into a building is one thing, but there's a lot of other things that can be done with our water supply, and our air, and the biological-chemical stuff, that could be going on right now, that isn't quite as obvious as an exploding office building in downtown New York.
LaRouche: The problem is now this is going to generate, obviously, just as you indicate, it's going to generate-- whatever happens really, that is, in actuality, the paranoia is going to produce effects just as if it had happened, even if it didn't.
Stockwell: Yes, because that's how we work, isn't it? And the thing that worries me the most about this, is not that the initial attack may be over with, but what will be a leaderless government's response to this?
LaRouche: That's a good question. This could be the worst thing the United States could do to itself.
Nobody trusts the United States abroad right now. This, the election, what happened on Nov. 7 last year, what happened in the Supreme Court....
Stockwell: Well, it was a coup! It was a Supreme Court coup for the White House.
LaRouche: But all these things, from the standpoint of Europeans, and others abroad, looking at the United States.... Japan is on the edge. It's taken about all it can take in terms of blackmail from the United States. China has reconciled itself to the fact that the United States, as the market of last option....
Stockwell: Same with Mexico....
LaRouche: The same thing. The President of Mexico, presumably the one guy who George W. Bush would know where to find him, came to Washington to meet with the President; brought up an agenda which the President should have been informed about beforehand, undoubtedly was; and the President meets with President Vicente Fox on this question of immigration, which we ought to have a working understanding on. If you don't have the final solution, at least you can be working on it, and say we're going to work on it. We don't. He turned it down, the President. Publicly turned it down.
Sent the President of Mexico, presumably the only man, the only President on this planet who really liked, or tried to like, George Bush, and he sends him packing to Mexico in desperation, to face a political crisis which the United States in a sense is imposing upon its neighbor Mexico. This is the kind of thing that people around the world, seeing this happen to the United States, if the President reacts, in ``We're going to get revenge, we're going to teach everybody a lesson,'' the President will have the worst possible effect for the United States. This is not the way to react.
- [break] -
Stockwell: That ought to really give you some hope and confidence that George Bush Jr. would be directing a world war!
LaRouche: The myth of the thing about Pearl Harbor, was that Roosevelt planned it. You had some people who spread that myth. They say that because they wish to believe it. Not because they have any evidence. The evidence is quite to the contrary: The British had organized Japan, to bomb Pearl Harbor, to attack it in a naval attack on Pearl Harbor, back at the beginning of the 1920s, when the British were allied with Japan against the United States, on the question of the naval power. This was the thing that Billy Mitchell talked about, in his court martial. He wasn't particularly liked for that. But what happened is, contrary to what the U.S. expected, because they did send the aircraft carriers out to sea, because of the tension with Japan at that point, in order not to put the aircraft carriers at risk from the Japanese Navy. You saw what happened at Midway later, as a result of that wise decision.
Stockwell: Yeah, and the Coral Sea.
LaRouche: Some people would like to think that if you convince the American people that Pearl Harbor has been bombed again, that you can use that effect, which I saw on the streets on Sunday, that famous Sunday, Dec. 7, 1941, you can use that event to mobilize the American people, particularly under the conditions of present denial and hysteria about the economy, and so forth, they can do something and mobilize the United States in a foolish direction. This would drive the world berserk. To think that you have lunatics in the United States, who would even threaten to go to world war over a thing like this.
Instead, we should recognize we've made some mistakes and correct them real fast and coolly, with as little panic as possible.
Continue to Part II